Pierre Boulez

SHINGLES SCENE Fun fact: Back in ’68, Boulez conducted in sunglasses. He wasn’t trying to look cool; he had shingles and couldn’t bear the light.

We’re seized by vertigo when Pierre Boulez answers the phone from Paris. The legendary composer-conductor-anarchist is perhaps best known for dismissing anything that doesn’t suit his militantly intellectual views on music and its future. But soon the “summit of his 83 years,” to borrow a Proustism, becomes less dizzying as the lifelong and now-mellowing rebel opens up about his craft.

Time Out Chicago: What does it say about the state of critical dialogue when writer Don Rosenberg was relieved of covering your old orchestra, Cleveland, following his negative write-ups of conductor Franz Welser-Möst?
I did not know this! I know Don quite well. The critical dialogue is necessary and not always pleasant. Without it, you don’t make any progress. Being too sure of yourself does not help. You don’t have to put blame on the critic here. You have to put blame on the lack of dialogue. It’s not the mistake of the critic to criticize. He is there for that!

TOC: So are audiences too passive? Should they boo?
Pierre Boulez: Yes! I prefer that kind of spontaneity of reaction to indifference. I prefer a fight than just nothing. I’ve had my share of boos, and I’ve survived.

TOC: You’ve said that, as a listener, rebelling against other people’s music is easy, but to rebel against yourself is hard. Explain. ?
Pierre Boulez: First, when you are surprised by the new sounds you hear, your first reaction is negative. You tell yourself you’re lost and you don’t understand it, so this thing must be bad. This is a very primitive reaction against which you have to fight. The things are not bad; they are what they are.

TOC: What immediate characteristics do you listen for as you make your judgments, particularly if it’s bad music? ?
Pierre Boulez: If I don’t understand the form or the trajectory of the work. If I don’t understand moments that are more important than other ones. If there are moments of calm. If there are moments of agitation. If you don’t feel that immediately, you can think the music is deficient. If you think about it, you can tell yourself that you’re more responsible for the lack of understanding. For me, it’s necessary to listen a second or third time, and then I can have an opinion. And then I say this music is not very well conceived.

TOC: Surely you hear music you instinctively think isn’t worth a second listen. ?
Pierre Boulez: [Laughs] I’ve had my bad experiences, for sure.

TOC: Can you ever listen on an unanalytical, purely emotional level? ?
Pierre Boulez: You are obliged to throw your emotions away. If you cannot organize your surprises, you are defeated. You have to organize your feelings.

TOC: Do you resent it when other composers criticize you for not incorporating enough of the popular vernacular in your own music? You did study African drumming. ?
Pierre Boulez: Pop music has its own feel—simple. Very effective, I recognize. Maybe if these critics would have better knowledge of rhythmic invention, like Stravinsky. Compare pop music to Rite of Spring, which goes back to 1913. I find that much more powerful, much more extraordinary and efficient. Instead of 4-4-4-4 all the time, Rite of Spring is very forceful and imaginative. I miss this in the pop vernacular.

TOC: How long does the CSO get to keep you on as conductor emeritus? ?
Pierre Boulez: As long as I am in good health. There will be reduced activity, because I want to compose more. In Chicago I have a lot of fun, I must say. Especially because we make programs that are interesting—Janacek, Szymanowski, Stravinsky.

TOC: You’ll be 84 in a few weeks. What’s a Pierre Boulez birthday party like? ?
Pierre Boulez: Quiet and discreet, I hope.

Pierre Boulez returns to Symphony Center Thursday 5 through Saturday 7 for a slate of 20th-century composers.

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